Male Honkey With Opinions & Totally White Broad With Other Opinions (MHWO & TWBWOO) Have a Conversation!

Recently I wrote an unintentionally inflammatory and probably not-too-well-thought-out-but-still-applicable-and-well-meaning blog post (found here) that fellow local writer and care-r-about-things, Eliza Campbell, wanted to chat with me about.
[transcribed from gchat windows]

Eliza: HEY why don't you believe in the PATRIACHY???
I spell it without the r
because it looks like "achy"
achy breaky patriarchy

Alex: Because Billy Ray Cyrus told me I shouldn't
I think it's silly for anyone, at least in the CURRENT WORLD full of FREEDOM OF SPEECH and FREE THOUGHT to believe that they have to believe anything anybody else says/dictates/tries to foist on others
It's just like a general principal (misspelled for more fun) of self-worth etc etc

Eliza: yeah but
rape ya know?
happens

Alex: Yeahhhh, rape. I understand the rape thing, but that falls more under like, general violence, you know?

Eliza: nope

Alex: Like, life is full of shit.
Rape included.

Eliza: yeahh but
men don't get raped
(a lot)

Alex: True, but do you think that's only because of the Patriarchy?
Or is it a symptom of any other number of problems?

Eliza: yes
excellent serve
volley
but on the other hand:
it's stupid to call it "patriarchy" because it's a lot of things
but most of them are related to male oppression
e.g. gential mutilation
child brides
etc.

Alex: In the United States? like, abroad (no pun intended), I can see how the problem of Male
Oppression is like rampant and NOW NOW NOW
But when I read about women complaining about what IMAGE AND FASHION dictate
when they reside in D.C. or Naw Yawk, well then I just think that's silly

Eliza: yeah that's true
except
eating disorders?
huh?
those are real

Alex: Eating disorders, drug addictions, self-mutilation are equally applicable to males as well
as females.

Eliza: true except that
men don't have eating disorders
(a lot)

Alex: I'm sure that this sort of insecurity and self-obsession has been a human trait for like, oh
all time.
And just because males don't have as high of a rate of REPORTED eating disorders, doesn't mean that they don't have them/aren't affected by them/etc.
Just because it isn't reported, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Eliza: true

Alex: My thing is that, I think it's silly to call fie against the GREAT MALE OPPRESSOR, at
least here in America, because the issue is about empowering yourself

Eliza: where did all of these feelings burst from?
out of curios?

Alex: Well, I think these feelings have been 4ever. But as of late, I just sit at work and read blogs
and blogs and blogs.

Eliza: oh boy
bad idea

Alex: Not so much. At least it stimulates my mind.
(in some way)

Eliza: what one set you off?
paris hiltons twitter?

Alex: I follow this girl [REDACTED] who spouts all of these really general, self-pleasing
opinions that make her sound somehow different but, ultimately, just makes her sound st00pid.
And then people agree with her
and are st00pid

Eliza: lemme see

Alex: or disagree with her
and are even st00pider

Eliza: linkit

Alex: [REDACTED].tumblr.com

Eliza: tumblrrrrr
never helped anyone

Alex: I mean, I'm just as st00pid for taking it all in seriousness

Eliza: well we're all st()()pid for not being informed enough
I sure is
most blogs are
except paris hilton's twitter
WAIT LISTEN

Alex: WHAT

Eliza: there's this law in Utah
where
if a woman pays someone to forcibly beat her to induce a miscarriage
she can be charged with homicide
that's messed up is all
the end

Alex: Which part is messed up? The fact that abortion is illegal at all? or the fact that someone, anyone, would PAY SOMEBODY TO FORCIBLY BEAT A BABY OUT OF THEM?

Eliza: YES

Alex: It's just a big old bundle of wtf?
That I want beat out of me

Eliza: and you're like, why would someone pay ($150) to have someone beat them up?
well
that's why I'm a women's studies minor
maybe

Alex: That's true. But I mean, what does that boil down to?
It's a reaction to something
But what?
Abortion laws? Getting pregnant?
Not thinking?
Like, what?

Eliza: exactly
it's confusing

Alex: It is.

Eliza: all the above prolly
but the point is, it doesn't happen to dudes

Alex: That's true.

Eliza: (a lot)

Alex: Is that applicable though?
Like, yeah. Guys cannot have children.
They don't have the choice to have a child beaten from their body.

Eliza: guys cannot be forcibly impregnated?

Alex: Ah, the rape question.

Eliza: it's a thing

Alex: I don't doubt that whatsoever.
So, what's the response?
Fight back?
Know how to defend yourself?

Eliza: that's why I do yoga
that's why I practice arm wrestling
and . . . own a gun

Alex: Plz tell me that's real
Isn't the most proactive thing you can do realizing the fact that rape can happen? And coming to terms with the fact that you have to defend yourself?

Eliza: yeah

Alex: Wouldn't women benefit simply by knowing that these things can happen?

Eliza: but isn't it stupid that it does happen?
and why does it happen?

Alex: Well that's like standing in the rain and complaining that the sky exists at all

Eliza: well god didn't make rape
probably

Alex: No but he made humans
With agencies
And humans are violent
Self-serving

Eliza: true

Alex: and ultimately about power

Eliza: but I think looking for solutions is probably a good idea
the difference between issuing all women a handgun or education, etc

Alex: Well, isn't there a deeper problem at hand?

Eliza: yes
overly restrictive gun lawS!!!

Alex: I mean, the whole idea of dominating another person is present in any relationship we
have with any human being, regardless or race or gender, ever.

Eliza: yeah but

Alex: Isn't rape about powerful domination?

Eliza: women have been dominated over kind of a lot more
suffragette city man

Alex: David Bowie was probably the most influential female punk artist ever
I'm just saying violence is unavoidable. I hate to say it, but rape is unavoidable. The way to stop ignorance and violence is education and openmindedness. Realizing your place in the world, that you can and will inevitably effect others in a positive or negative way. And even when people DO know those things, they still have the option and choice to harm others.
So, what solution is there to a fundamental part of human nature?
The will and want to dominate?
I want my daughter/wife/mother/any girl that I know to be able to disembowel a potential rapist.
I don't know how that connects here
Just a statement

Eliza: good statement

Alex: I guess an affirmation that I'm not like, "Can't stop it so don't worry about it lol!"
And as for women getting paid less, well I think that's just stupid. I wish you would get paid more. I don't understand why you don't. You know? That's dumb. If there were a bill about you getting paid equally, I'd approve it.

Eliza: would you facebook like it?


Lo! The discussion does not end there. I felt as though I'd represented myself and my original position poorly and was a little sore. I have a feeling she was a little sore as well because we didn't necessarily "come to terms" with one another.

Alex to Eliza:

Maybe rap musics is why I'm such a Self-Righteous HeMan Woman Hater's Club Official Member Male Oppressor Public Enemy Number 1. But, I guess, I'm alright with that.

Eliza to Alex:

… You ain't Oppressor sorry if I implied it. I'm just a militant gun-toting (?) Feminazi is all. I'm sending you a recording of someone from India singing my brother a birthday rap that I bought him yesterday. YEAH

TajTunes by Bare Bones Magazine



Alex to Eliza:

I've thought it over and wanted to let you know that it's not that I don't believe in the ol' Achy. I know it's there. I know white dudes run the world, or at least the part of it that we live in. But what I guess I mean is that I don't think it's valid to act like a victim just because the Patriarchy says you should. In light of my blog post (I hate myself for even typing those words out), I guess I should specify that "I will never date a girl who willingly accepts the idea that The Patriarchy has made society or her gender do anything" because I think that's the mentality of a victim. Which, even if women are victims in a lot of scenarios, what can be gained by acting like a victim? Or, even worse, victimizing yourself? If the Patriarchy (read: men) is to blame for women getting raped, oppressive laws placed on the bodies of women, the salary gap, distasteful jokes, a self-image problem, and general bad juju for all of women-kind, then women who choose to lie back and bemoan the situation of the world today and the lot of women in the past and how awful this damn patriarchy is instead of trying to change the world and communities that they live in are just as oppressive as the Patriarchy itself.

As James Allen would put it:

It has been usual for men to think and to say, "Many men are slaves because one is an oppressor; let us hate the oppressor." Now, however, there is among an increasing few a tendency to reverse this judgment, and to say, "One man is an oppressor because many are slaves; let us despise the slaves." The truth is that oppressor and slave are cooperators in ignorance...

Yuck, all this seriousness has made me look like a bigot probably or something. The truth is I love all thangs and want all the laws for Love and Truth and Happiness to be passed and for us all to Break The Bread of Humanity together and whatnot. If your thing is radical Feminism, well I appreciate that because it's not really radical so much as "informed" and "proactive", which is what responsible members of society should be. And if my thing is not liking people who consider themselves victims because, in my opinion, that gets us nowhere, well then respect me too dammit or I'll call all of my big burly white male friends to hall you off to gaol for thinking too much!

Eliza to Alex:

Serious response:

Typing some overly colloquial rambling into a Tumblr is, I agree, probably not the most "proactive" way to approach "issues". We might even call it "hypocritical" or "st00pid". And obvs, I am a Rich White American Girl with my own house, own car, two jobs, bad broad, etc. and generally might sound a little st00pid were I to complain about how I'm being actively oppressed as a grill. I'm pretty damn privileged. The fact that I'm able to read, write, have access to the Internet, and type is proof of that. But that doesn't change the fact that the political, economic, and social status of women overall is inferior to that of their male counterparts in the world, has been for a long time, and probably will for a long time in the future, and it's not fair. I'm a little sensitive to it because of having worked with these dudes: http://www.womanstats.org/ and also having personally known women who have been raped, abused, underpaid, anorexic, sexually harassed, and/or decided to dress up as Sarah Palin for Halloween. I like Nicki Minaj as much as the next fellow, but I might be careful about the difference between 'acting like a victim' and 'being a 13-year-old sex slave in Bangladesh' or whatever. Or a poor single mother in Orem, Utah. Or a certain lady who works at a certain gas station I know whose husband cheats on her and has left her multiple times with their five kids.

U r right. Lying back is bad. I'm trying not to lie back as much. Thanks for reminding me about that. Just sayin, the Achy is real. It isn't as simple as "The Patriarchy is making me oppressed", and saying it that way is more hurtful than productive. Which is why I'm trying to be productive. By getting a C in econ!!!

This is so deep:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNal0O7yzvI


And of course, no long-winded conversation concerning Rights and Issues would be wrapped up without a baring of emotions and tearful rejoinder.


Eliza: u r responsed

Alex: Corollary: just trying to understand my role as a white dude who doesn't want the power he is told he has. My moms is a single mom, so I'm like, "women oppressed? doesn't compute"

Eliza: well I come from a place where it was a contest for who could be the most liberal
so I'm like "different ideas? doesn't compute"

Alex: I feel like I should conclude every interaction with you with something like, "Hope you don't think I'm trying to oppress you!"

Eliza: shorten it to "no oppress-o!"


Summarily:

I guess looking over the whole thing and who I am as a Cracker Bro With Responsibilities and Opinions (CBWRAO), I'm realizing that I'm young. This is the first time I've really actually encountered these issues in a real-life setting. I'm trying to work the whole thing out, and think open dialoguing and conversating is an important part about that. It opens up areas that you never even realized existed.

I've got to realize that people will complain about Patriarchy and not do anything. They'll use it as a way to talk about how petty and insecure other people are for relying on it as a way to vindicate themselves. But, then again, people will also talk about these issues in a way that inspires change. People will continue not to sit back on their haunches about the whole thing, even if they don't understand where they're going or how to go about changing things. As a Bro With Feelings (BIF), I have to realize that Male Oppression and Patriarchy are real. Male Oppression happens, and not just in third-world countries. I have to continually acknowledge that it's detrimental to both sexes to treat it with a gloss whenever it's mentioned and not just think people are st00pid when they don't know how to feel about it. Especially myself.

I stand by, forever, my decision to Facebook "like" any potential laws that would somehow contribute to the equalization of women and men in society as a whole. I still also stand by my statement that I will not date a woman who lets herself believe that she's trapped and cornered by something so large and nebulous as THE PATRIARCHY. And who believes that other people can make her do anything. And finally, I stand by the idea that before one makes any "informed" decisions about women and the (massive) thorns-in-their-sides, one should talk to a Totally Informed White Broad (TIWB) about it all. Chances are your horizons are going to get broadened (NO PUN INTENDED).

No oppress-o!

Relevant links:
http://www.womanstats.org/
http://theladytimes.blogspot.com/
http://tigerbeatdown.com/
The Fabled U.S. Census!
---see also: Income, Expenditures, Poverty, Wealth & Education for some really fun examination of what is currently happening in our country concerning White Male Oppression.


Eliza Campbell is a local writer, blogger, and country guitar singer. She can usually be found here.

Alex Christman is connected to this magazine in some sort of peripheral way. You can find more of him here and here.

And, as always, feel free to join in the conversation or to email us! We'd love to rejoinder. Thanks for reading!